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    Home Unlabelled Ace Attorney Weekly Poll [14]: What is your favourite Detention Center theme?

    Ace Attorney Weekly Poll [14]: What is your favourite Detention Center theme?

    November 06, 2020

    Ace Attorney Weekly Poll [14]: What is your favourite Detention Center theme?

    Weekly Poll [14]: What is your favourite Detention Center theme?

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 01:26 PM PDT

    This part of 3-5 hit me really hard

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 01:58 PM PST

    I just finished the third game in the original trilogy, and at the very end of the last trial when Maya is asked to testify, Godot asks her for her profession. Previously in the trilogy she would always refer to her self as a "spirit medium" or a "spirit medium in training", but this last time she pauses a little bit and says:

    "I'm the assistant manager of Wright & Co. Law Offices."

    I don't know why, but the fact that she refers to herself as assistant manager instead of spirit medium gave me the feels way more than any other part of that trial. It shows how far Maya has come since the first time and it kinda makes me sad that she's forced to become master of the Kurain School of Channeling.

    submitted by /u/grapeintensity
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    Guys i did It finished Phoenix Wright Ace attorney for the First time!!!im só happy right now and also hyped because Justice for all os about to start for me

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 07:41 PM PST

    You know what the best ship is?

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 12:42 PM PST

    Friendship

    submitted by /u/TheWiseSquid884
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    Is Godot’s name a reference to the play Waiting for Godot?

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 07:32 PM PST

    This game had woken empathy to robots in me. Poor things...

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 04:13 AM PST

    Drew Godot and thought y’all would enjoy it.

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 09:56 PM PST

    Am I softlocked here? I'm playing on the switch version of the fourth case of the first game in the orogional trilogy. Both options lead to the case being thrown out. I cant go back either.

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 06:16 PM PST

    Trump objection

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 03:36 PM PST

    Ive been sitting here working on something as a way to express myself because of all of the election stuff.

    https://reddit.com/link/jottpq/video/87jhrhtzbix51/player

    submitted by /u/Sincord0
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    Why this is the most valid ship in the entire series as a whole

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 10:43 PM PST

    The SS Alaclaire is an actual steamboat, hence it's classed as a legitimate ship that is able to transport passengers across the globe.

    submitted by /u/MUT1L4T0R
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    Ace attorney bloopers are gold

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 08:11 AM PST

    JC's Post-Replay Case Tier List (lacks PLvAA and DGS2)

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 11:45 PM PST

    Edgeworth's PP size debate (Objection.lol)

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 07:52 PM PST

    Ema Forgot (Pogo Meme)

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 01:40 PM PST

    I may be nitpicky here,but...The Judge's side in Courtroom No. 4 feels like unloaded in time textures. I think that someone in charge of graphics should have made a less bland sky.

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 05:06 AM PST

    What is the best ship?

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 05:12 PM PST

    I can allready tell who's going to win...

    View Poll

    submitted by /u/HenryStickminMemer
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    Some sprites i made while i am sick (free to use no credit needed)

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 03:11 AM PST

    Would an Ace Attorney/Batman crossover work out?

    Posted: 06 Nov 2020 12:29 AM PST

    Yes, it seems like an odd choice. But hear me out: the lynchpin between these two franchises is Two-Face, AKA district attorney/prosecutor Harvey Dent (who, apparently, was occasionally nicknamed Apollo). The way I see it there are two ways for these series to cross over:

    1: A more serious tale focusing on pre-Two-Face Harvey. With him prosecuting various mob bosses and serial killers in Gotham, with the final case being the infamous one where Sal Maroni threw acid in his face.

    2: One that actually features Ace Attorney characters: Two-Face has kidnapped over a hundred people, holding them hostage in a courtroom wired with explosives. His demands are simple: send in the world's greatest defense attorney(s) and have them defend various people in a series of trials. Dent serves as the prosecutor, with someone like Ra's al Ghul as the judge. His goal is to see if justice is dead, if the system will allow for innocent people to get the death penalty (in this case delivered by Two-Face's handgun) while the real murderers go free. He KNOWS all the accused are innocent, and who the real culprits are. But he wants to see if the defense can prove it. And of course, all the witnesses are various Batman villains in full costume, only really going along with this because they're stuck in the bomb-wired courthouse as well. So, the Ace Attorney crew have to defend their various clients (all of whom are Batman side characters like Renee Montoya and Aaron Cash) with the threat of having the entire courthouse blow up hangs over them. Of course, this is all setup to having a bunch of Batman villains give testimonies in a courtroom. Riddler is practically made for this kinda stuff, being 50% smugness and 50% breakdowns.

    submitted by /u/MarioToast
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    Cannot unsee the resemblance

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 12:29 PM PST

    Some Thoughts on the Salvageability of AA5's Main Villain

    Posted: 06 Nov 2020 12:25 AM PST

    So, I've been writing out that Dual Destinies rewrite thing out, and I think one of the most...interesting, points to discuss in regards to my changes is in regards to the villains. Discounting Marlon (who is a fan favourite for good reason, and whose case is a complicated talking point), the culprits of the game are...not good, to say least. Tonate is a lazy, one-note first case villain after previous games had started drifting more and more away from that, L'Belle is one-note villainous douchebag and has plans and motivations which are riddled with plot holes and nonsense logic, and Means is an infuriating trainwreck who just refuses to shut up while also having no depth to speak of.

    And then, of course, there's the phantom.

    AA main villains are an interesting bunch to talk about because, inherently, AA games are about mysteries. They are about deduction and exposing the truth, even if that is fought against. Creating a "villain" in such a story is tricky on its own when the character even being a villain is part of the twist. So, for the "grand" stories which are what make up the concluding cases, the question becomes what would be a fitting villain to be faced in such a context.

    Generally, you can seperate the "major" AA villains into two camps.

    "Supreme Power"

    In these cases, the villain is a figure who represents some immense kind of powerful authority of some kind, and wields this the moment you even get close to discovering the truth. Even getting near them is a struggle, and they will make you know that well.

    Examples: Von Karma, Gant, Morgan (not faced directly, but is the mastermind of Bridge to Turnabout), Alba, Blaise (not the final culprit, but immensely important regardless), Megundal (who fits this in just one relatively short case that ends in him burning alive, plus a handful of flashbacks, not bad) and Ga'ran (who is an objectively terrible character, but still fits the mold)

    "Embodiment of Evil"

    The less common model. A character who is built up not through their sheer power, but because of the immensely horrifying degrees of human malice which makes them capable of acts of genuine cruelty and spite. These ones are much, much darker in terms of narrative tone.

    Examples: Engarde, Dahlia, Kristoph, Simon (Keyes)

    What's interesting then about "the phantom" is that he's neither of these types. The only other "important" AA villain I can name who does that is Chrogray (who is just an ordinary human being acting out of desperate circumstances he found himself manipulated into), but the phantom is even more stark because of what the entire creative gimmick of him is.

    You literally know nothing about him.

    To quote AA5's art director Takuro Fuse:

    "The original story was a bit different, and the final boss was not the Phantom, but someone complete different. There'd be a police detective who was the former partner of prosecutor Yugami, and even though everyone thought he'd be dead, he'd turn out to be still alive, masquerading as Ban…. So after a lot of changes, we ended up with the story as it is now, and I think it's much more shocking now. It all ends without us learning who the Phantom really is, so I think many of the players will feel frustrated, wanting to punch the final boss in his face, but not being able too. Oh yeah, I remember that during the development, we talked about not killing off Ban."

    Bolded the important part, but really that entire paragraph is worth paying attention to. It's pretty obvious, just from how Fuse framed it, that what the devs felt was "interesting" about the phantom is that he was completely enigmatic as a character. You never learn who he is, what his exact deal is, who or what his employer is, and even his real personality or face. He is a complete enigma as a character.

    And, on its own, this is an actually genuinely fascinating idea. Ambiguity, on its own terms, can be a very powerful tool in driving audience perception, and the idea of a mystery villain who does terrible things for reasons one can't really "understand" in conventional terms, is an ambitious one.

    Unfortunately, this isn't what happens with the Phantom, and indeed the twist ends up the shining demonstration of all of AA5's failings.

    One of the key factors which make AA's most loved villains so compelling is the very specific ways they make the player hate them through pointed acts of evil. Von Karma murdered his rival purely for proving he forged evidence, groomed said rivals son into an apprentice, then had him framed for murder. Gant murdered Neil and made Lana think Ema did it just to use her. Engarde helped drive his ex-girlfriend to commit suicide in a petty attempt to one-up his rival, and blackmails Phoenix into defending his guilty ass. Dahlia is a remorseless, spiteful monster who successfully manipulates Fawless into killing himself in the middle of the court room. Kristoph destroyed Phoenix's career and laid a death trap for a 12 year old girl just to cover his tracks. The list goes on, where the actions they commit, and the way they conduct themselves, are so horrifying they make them feel like the true test of ones justice, in a sense.

    The Phantom isn't like that, though. Sure, he killed Apollo's best friend and Athena's mother, but neither of these actions had emotional motivations, and in fact his involvement with them makes them lose emotional weight. He has no backstory or past crimes which have to be answered for, and he takes no pride or pleasure in them either. No hate, no spite, nothing, and while that's part and parcel of the character, it's an inherently bad choice for crafting the concluding the story of a game like Ace Attorney.

    I've stated my issues with the use of him as an "answer" to the NR-1 incident, and I think I should give a more detailed explanation there. While superficially the reveal has similarities to DL-6 and SL-9, the crucial difference is that the respective reveals of Von Karma and Gant's actions make the stories that much more horrifying in a way and also cruel and desperate, furthering the desire to give the story some kind of happy conclusion. In NR-1, meanwhile, all the Phantom really seems to exist as is an "out" so that Blackquill gets to go free and Athena doesn't have to suffer (even though the incident would've made more sense to be written as an accident), as his involvement does nothing for the emotional narrative of the case. Athena barely even seems that angry about the revelation.

    And that's the next thing to discuss, the mechanics of the twist itself. Having Fulbright, a character who'd been established as the lovable comic relief of the main cast, be secretly a villain is a fantastic idea. AA has historically had very few main cast members be culprits, the only other example being Godot, and Fulbright is essentially a take on the legendary "Yasu is the culprit" twist from Portopia, a shocking turnaround which leaves people talking about the game for years to come.

    Unfortunately, the twist falls apart there as well because of how incredibly callously it disregards the players emotional connection to Fulbright himself. As soon as the reveal happens, no one expresses any horror at the idea that their friend was the culprit, they just talk about their anger for the murders he committed and how he lied to them. The real Fulbright's death is itself weakly thrown in as an explanation for what happened to him, and idea that a genuinely good man has died pointlessly seems not even at the mind of anyone in the room. There's legitimately nothing to connect the players feelings with the person they knew with the villain they have to defeat in a satisfying way, and it's clear from that Fuse quote even the devs had second thoughts about killing Fulbright off the way they did.

    A good way to contrast this is with the mastermind of Investigations 2 (and best boi), Simon Keyes. Simon, like the Phantom, is a shocking twist villain whose identity is revealed just before the final section of the game, and is a seemingly amicable and friendly character hiding his true nature. Unlike Fulbright/Phantom, however, Simon is given pointed weight come the reveal regarding how his prior perception ties into the person he really is. Once the reveal happens, one gets to look back on his prior appearances and see the image of the mask an extremely manipulative, unbalanced and cruel misanthrope wears in order to survive.

    PhantomBright meanwhile basically fails to reconcile the Fulbright we know with the villain we are revealed, and while part of that may be the point it just feels like an utter waste of a good character for the purpose of a shock twist. Fulbright has way more screentime as well, so that just makes the ultimate reveal just feel all the more out of place.

    So, with the player having little real drive to confront the Phantom, and him doing nothing with the twist of his true identity beyond it existing, what exactly is there for the game to do? To that end...I'm not quite sure. Turnabout for Tomorrow seems incredibly split between trying to find some kind of conclusion to the games aimless, nonsensical "Dark Age of the Law" plotline in spite of there being almost nothing connecting the events of the case to the thread in a substantial way, and a narrative justification for Athena's Mood Matrix outside of being her gimmick, capped off by Phoenix saying "HOPE" a dozen times like he's Nagito Komaeda (maybe that "AA5 was influenced by Danganronpa" theory might have some weight to it...). The Phantom seems like an afterthought in the proceedings, a cheap bad guy who the game almost forgets is there (the only thing they can really do with him is say he's emotionless) and is forgotten the moment his part is up. He's just "there" essentially, and the attempt at ambiguity makes him less of part of the story, not more.

    So, is there a way to have fixed the character? That's debatable, I think. The thing is that the twist is built on a number of contradicting ideas with no clear creative direction. The issue is that the Phantom's entire character essentially creates a black hole of faults. He can't tie into Fulbright, can't have a deeper emotional connection to the storyline, isn't really intimidating in any way, he's just a random spy at the end of the day with hazy motives. His existence is basically just a big unresolved point on the story.

    Still, I think the ideas that comprise him, the ambiguous villain you can't truly understand, and the shocking betrayal character, are good ones, and there's a lot that could've been mined from, say, Fulbright secretly being a villain that could've continued themes explored in previous games in new and interesting ways.

    Does anyone have their own takes here? I'm curious what they think about this opinion piece.

    submitted by /u/RainSpectreX
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    One point I find absurd in THE Dark Age Of The Law

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 08:39 PM PST

    Simon Blackquill:becomes half of the reason for THE Dark Age Of The Law (I will call it like that from now on),because he's a CoNvIcTeD PrOsEcUtOr

    Manfred,Diego/Godot,and Blaise (he's still a prosecutor,technically):"Y-yeah,shame on you,Simon,haha!..." they turn to each other "So when's your execution date,bois?"

    Maybe I misunderstood it,but that still sounds strange to me.

    submitted by /u/paulvanzieks
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    I just finished trials and tripulations

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 04:32 PM PST

    It's the first time i cried with a game :(
    But one question remains, what happened to Godot? Is he dead or alive?

    submitted by /u/Darth_Papa_Rellena
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    If anyone asks what i use to make my sprites (yes i do infact use ibispaint)

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 05:56 AM PST

    Useless fact about Phantom

    Posted: 05 Nov 2020 11:44 PM PST

    Phantom (in Bobby's disguise,obviously) is the only character,whose Psycho-Locks Phoenix unlocked,who Apollo percieved with his bracelet,and who was counseled with Athena's Mood Matrix all in one game. He went through all 3 character abilities in one only game.

    submitted by /u/paulvanzieks
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