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    Ace Attorney Weekly Poll [14]: What is your favourite Detention Center theme?

    November 01, 2020

    Ace Attorney Weekly Poll [14]: What is your favourite Detention Center theme?

    Weekly Poll [14]: What is your favourite Detention Center theme?

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 01:26 PM PDT

    Trucy goes trick or treating

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 12:42 PM PDT

    Cosplaying my favorite prosecutor for Halloween ��

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 01:06 AM PDT

    I didn’t have any plans for today but I still wanted to dress up, so I give you young “Feenie” Also do what he says and wear your mask to protect others ❤️ Happy Halloween ��

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 12:12 PM PDT

    I cosplayed as Godot for Halloween this year.

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 01:06 PM PDT

    I dressed as PW for Halloween but I look like Harry Potter

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 07:20 PM PDT

    OBJECTION! Your honour, I submit to the court my illustration of Phoenix Wright! Please support my on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adamkolei/

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 11:21 AM PDT

    I got this Ace Attorney phone charm yesterday, and wanted to share.

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 08:54 AM PDT

    I cannot tell you guys how much Sherlock Holmes theme from Dai Gyakuten Saiban slaps

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 06:54 PM PDT

    His Theme, has to be one of the best things Ive ever heard in history of Dai Gyakuten Saiban:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tnhwjm4PYA

    submitted by /u/Dokkan-Player-Ralph
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    can someone tell me what the appeal of aai2 is?

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 09:24 PM PDT

    Basically, title.

    So I am currently replaying the series, only on 1-4 but its making me think. What exactly did yall actually enjoy about investigations 2?

    Personally, it's pretty much the worst game in the entire series for me. that's including the layton crossover - which everyone hates here with a vengeance for some reason lol

    The plot was forgettable. I didn't really understand it all that much, honestly. presidential impersonator, oopsie it's a fake, some orphanage, chess, and two assassins with bad disguises and a bell in a lion. criticism welcome.

    honestly the case lengths seem to be a plus for most, but they just felt incredibly dragged out. I normally feel different replaying games, but I cannot bring myself to with this one - they just take so fucking long. the last case took me 3 weeks because I had to force myself to finish it, and it just kept going on.

    But there were some okay things with it/ little things but they are THERE.

    Sebastian is my favorite character by a landslide (profile picture related.) And his CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. DAMN.

    Courtney sucks and she's annoying but her design is very pretty.

    The third case is wonderful. despite it being dragged out for longer than it shouldve been, omg my heart man wtf :(

    Aight this post was long enough. tell me your thoughts on aai2!

    submitted by /u/stoptrackingmeplease
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    Happy Halloween!

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 12:01 PM PDT

    Updated tierlist from trilogy to SOJ

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 02:13 PM PDT

    What game should i play after ace attorney trilogy?

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 02:27 PM PDT

    I tried a new artstyle this halloween

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 09:20 AM PDT

    Making Ace Attorney characters in the Among Us character maker day 7: Lana Skye

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 08:40 AM PDT

    About killer's transformations

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 09:36 AM PDT

    The thing about killer's transformations (not to be confused with breakdowns) is that the designers don't seem to change character's design much,but these characters feel completely different with these changes. Like,remember Yanni Yogi: all he does is that he just stands up,but I already can see his personality clearly. Or Matt Engarde — all he does is that he flips his hair and reveals a scar,but I can feel how sinister he is; Or Cammy Melee — she just seems to...have normal eyes and have a bottle with bubbles,and I can see,that she isn't "strange flying attendant" after all (guys,I'm trying to describe them,but I run out of words); Or Quercus Alba — all he does is that he stands up,breaks his cane and opens his eyes,yet it's enough to show his sinister and selfish demeanor; And finally,Simon Keyes — he just unties his hair and opens eyes,but I can already see his cold and manipulative side.

    submitted by /u/paulvanzieks
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    Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, but it's Ace Attorney.

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 05:49 PM PDT

    What Was Apollo Justice Supposed To Even Be, Really?

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 01:24 AM PDT

    So, in preparation for a planned attempt to rewrite the "Apollo Trilogy" into something that works as an actually coherent and emotionally driven trilogy, I revisited Apollo Justice, the game, for the first time in a while.

    It was an...interesting experience, to say the least.

    Apollo Justice is a game I would consider a failure, but not in the same way as the following two mainline games. While Dual Destines and Spirit of Justice are games fascinating to analyse in how their design is made in a way which betrays the original games (Meta I did on that here), Apollo Justice doesn't. It's a game which unmistakably came from the mindset of the original trilogy, seeking to expand on and reconstruct AA as a franchise. And that, in a way, is commendable.

    Too bad the game is, uh, not good, and I say that knowing all its fans and defenders.

    It's important to remember AA4 was not a game Shu Takumi originally wanted to make. He genuinely believed the series story had concluded with the ending of Bridge to Turnabout, and had just come off writing Rise from the Ashes for the DS release of the first game, and was surprised himself when Capcom sprung the project on him. It also came with two edicts:

    • It had to include Phoenix in some way.
    • It to include the Jurist System, which was making headlines for being implemented in Japan at the time.

    For the former, Takumi actually had a pretty fantastic idea of how to approach that. Turnabout Trump is hands down the best first case in the main series, both because of its shocking twist that turns around the entire dynamic of the series, and because of its introduction of Phoenix as a very different kind of mentor. While Mia was a spirit who acted as a source of sage wisdom and emotional support for Phoenix, here Phoenix himself was carrying on the torch as a disbarred ex-attorney and single father with a rather lazy, distant attitude the beguiled his intelligence. While definitely quite a shock to the system, Phoenix's new perspective in many ways was something of the natural evolution of Takumi's hero, who slowly evolved from from a naive rookie into a seasoned genius over the course of three games.

    In general, Apollo Justice seems like it was purposely trying to invert every archetype that was associated with the original cast. Apollo was younger, brasher and less confident than Phoenix ever was, making him a new kind of underdog hero. Trucy has superficially Maya's personality and role, but is really a mature genius and fragile girl hiding everything under a performers mask (this is much more obvious in the original Japanese, admittedly). Ema is a cranky, intellectual wannabe scientist instead of the dim-witted but lovable Gumshoe. And Klavier was basically a complete subversion on the concept of previous rivals in that he really is better than Apollo in every way, a cool, confident, intelligent, friendly and very handsome young man who was able to upstage him at every turn.

    There was def a move to push AA in a new direction with the fourth game, with a completely new cast dynamic, storylines and settings. The game choose to expand more on the greying morality and criminal aspects of the AA world, such as having an attorney as the main villain, the murders involving settings and ideas such as a seedy bar with a criminal background and smuggling, and even have the heroes do not entirely legal things to get what they wanted. Cases felt more interconnected now, with the clear attempt to form a stronger, more cohesive narrative for the franchise moving forwards. And the game did seem to try making a stab about ideas of law and justice which were integral to the franchise by that point in a new way.

    Unfortunately, this is where I stop praising Apollo Justice. Because, while the game was clearly well-intentioned, everything it tried is mired in failed goals.

    Apollo Justice is a game which suffers because it never really seems like it knows what it wants to do, or if it does, it has no idea what to do to get there. Take, for example, Klavier and Apollo's rivalry. Phoenix's rivalries were affairs that gave him very specific relationships with each character. Edgeworth was his former best friend whose story formed the backbone of the first game, Fransizka was Edgeworth's adopted little sister whose character reflected Phoenix's perspective on justice, and Godot was a man who despised Phoenix personally for tragic reasons he and the player eventually figured out.

    Klavier meanwhile has almost no real narrative to his relationship with Apollo. He's the little brother of Apollo's (evil) first mentor, but this fact barely even comes up until the last hour of the game. The rivalry itself is almost completely one-sided, Apollo basically never gets a one-up on him, and Klavier's cool persona never once cracks beyond a few hints of his shock that Kristoph used him as a pawn. He as a character is simply never given a reason to grow or develop as a human being.

    Likewise, Trucy is a genuinely fascinating character once you become aware of her personality being a mask (she's really a lighter version of everyone's favourite Danganronpa boi), but the problem is that there's almost nothing in the game dealing with that truth, all there is is a fleeting reference to her in the final scene of the game showing her crying. You could very easily not be aware she even is putting on a façade, which is a pretty litigious a failing for a main character, and seems like it was made in the mind of a continuation...which is exactly the biggest fundamental issue with AA4 as a whole.

    Apollo Justice is a game which seems to be constantly weighed by three problems:

    1. A rushed, heavily messy production as the staff struggled to figure out a new direction for the franchise.
    2. Takumi wanting to "experiment" at the cost of establishment or consistency.
    3. A desire to leave things to be explored for future instalments.

    These three principles can all be felt in the games cataclysmic final case Turnabout Succession, which is basically an utter trainwreck from start to finish. It is seemingly designed around the MASON segment, which sees the player leaping between eight chronologically separated incidents and slowing puzzling out the "true" backstory of the game. While this is an interesting idea on paper, it is an utter nightmare to play in practice with a story that rapidly spirals into incoherency. Phoenix somehow is revealed to have learnt facts from conversations that couldn't possibly happen in a coherent timeline, a number of character motivations are poorly laid out (to where Zak's character is utterly nonsensical), and the biggest twist in the game, Apollo being Thalassa's son, isn't even resolved.

    Moreover, the attempt to create a "unique" setup crucially causes Apollo Justice to fail as a story, because the story is essentially "resolved" with the actual main cast even being there. Valant's true actions, for example, are given in the most cumbersome way possibly, relegating one of the most important backstory events of the game to a hasty conversation which amounts to "yeah that happened". We don't even see how Trucy reacted to learning if her beloved uncle tried to frame her biological father for murder.

    And then there's the Jurist system. Which I can't entirely blame Takumi on, it was forced on him after all, but in the context of AA4 amounts to an extremely cumbersome deus ex machina that allows the day to be saved, yet the game attempts to treat this as a crucial philosophical moment despite very little really leading to it or tying into the discussion (it never connects to the backstory in the slightest, for one thing). It's a hollow attempt to try tackling a new possibility, but the problem is that the idea that allowing for a jury to sort things out is counter-ethical to the series formula of deduction and the truth, which is no doubt why 5 and 6 ditched it entirely. (DGS uses it, but with the very specific context that Ryunosuke is always defending people London society is biased against, and Ryuu himself is subject to racist treatment by much of the court)

    By far the most interesting aspect of this mess is in a way the villain, Kristoph Gavin. AA's most prominent villains always have had an "embodiment of evil" vibe in the framing of them (outside of, again, 5 and 6) as individuals capable of immense evil and their sincere belief in what they're doing, but Kristoph takes the cake by being framed as literally satanic. His psyche-locks are pitch black, he has a demonic skull appear on his hand, is referred to as "the devil" by Vera and is said to have his maddened laughter echo through the halls of the courtroom. Even come his defeat, his mystique never really vanishes either, in a way you almost feel like you know less about him.

    Could, I wonder, the original intent have been to make Kristoph the overarching villain of the series? Obviously, such an idea is questionable given the ending, but it's possible, at any rate. Unfortunately, such a high-concept idea is kinda hurt by how little the game does with Kristoph, barley mentioning him after the first case until he's abruptly brought back in the final hour of the game to serve as the villain, and only really shows his true personality in the last 10 minutes or so. It's an underwhelming conclusion not just in the context of Apollo Justice itself, but also the series, which makes all of its best villains individuals of such weight and immense fear.

    I guess that's the big question then, what was the creative intent behind any of Apollo Justice? Was there as plan to go somewhere with what they had, or was the game literally just a cobbled together conglomerate of ideas from a project which didn't know what to do? Because the central fault here is that, if the game was designed around springboarding a series, that is a fault in itself. You really should just care about the game.

    I don't have answers. I will never have answers, and I am under no such beliefs that somehow I could know what Takumi intended. That "Retrial" version of the Apollo Trilogy I'm doing I am fully aware is basically completely removed from the original intent in many ways, and does things which probably seem like me swerving so far off to where I risk crashing into a tree.

    Still, it's interesting, ya know? Wonder what could have been.

    submitted by /u/RainSpectreX
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    I made another Original Turnabout! (Among Us inspired) | Showdown of Prosecutors

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 09:10 AM PDT

    Let's Rewrite - Ace Attorney: Apollo Justice (Part 2) [General Spoilers]

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 06:01 AM PDT

    Turnabout Succession:

    Normally, I'm not really focused on mystery logic and more concerned about the general story beats for these rewrites. Problem is that the mystery logic in the flashback trial where you play as Phoenix has the effect of really undermining a lot of the circumstances behind Phoenix's forgery. He's put in a situation where it doesn't make sense for him to present any evidence.

    Honestly if it were up to me this case would not look anything near the same, but with these rewrites I do have the rule that I won't just say "this is stupid, don't do it" to keep the case as close to the original intended idea as possible.

    Klavier's premise is faulty—the diary doesn't prove the time of death just because he stopped writing. Even if it did, there are obvious tear marks in it, so Phoenix doesn't even need to present anything to contradict it. What's more, the series has done this several times where you grab evidence from someone at the last minute with several older cases. Even the fact that the page is a forgery doesn't prove that Phoenix has committed any wrongdoing.

    For example, JFA Edgeworth presents a forged letter that was inside the bear figurine in 2-4 and failed to properly check it first. His case isn't thrown out and the fact that it was a forgery is crucial to the case itself. Phoenix doesn't so much as question this at all on the stand and they have Phoenix act really cocky in his internal dialogue to make it seem like he was taken down with his hubris and it's really silly how this setup really has to work into a "forging evidence" trap.

    In general, the game feels unsure about exactly what angle they want to take with Klavier and didn't have much planned beyond subverting trilogy prosecutor portrayals. Klavier is still a cool guy and a refreshing prosecutor to go against case by case, but it also feels disjointed overall.

    It honestly casts more suspicion on Klavier if he just happened to conveniently sniff it out and have the perfect witness prepared for this scenario when he didn't as much as consider this evidence. It's reasonable to think he was behind the forgery, and the game kind of leans in that I guess as a red herring, but you also saw Kristoph just standing and looking evil in the opening of the case, so it doesn't really work.

    Speaking of which, we'll ditch Kristoph's appearance in the opening and Vera's falling. I'm pretty sure it largely exists in the trial because someone collapsing mid-trial was shocking when it happened in 3-4, so it'll make a cool opening.

    We'll flip things around by beginning with the flashback trial instead of Vera's current trial. Apollo mentioned how he's watched the trial himself numerous times, and we'll add the condition that something has seemed really off about it to him a lot, and I'm honestly surprised Apollo doesn't have a bit more suspicion or dissonance toward Klavier when you consider how suspect the flashback trial makes him.

    The flashback trial this time will focus on a different victim, and rather than focusing on Magnifi's death, it'll center around Thalassa's shooting. Magnifi claims he wants the truth so he can know who to have suffer, but he's pulling the strings in both instances and projecting his anger hard. We can make him into a sort of Dee Vasquez character where he's in part a producer for his work but also has criminal connections as well, though he might have a few police as well. There's a point where Gumshoe points out that a bunch of police became police specifically they were obsessed with him and the gun play in his work, so why not?

    His health is still deteriorating, so he's trying to handle the affairs of his succession but doesn't want either Zak or Valant to get any rights. Then by the time of the present day trial he has died and the question of his stage rights would still default to Trucy because of Zak's actions.

    This gives him a bit of influence in the trial because his hatred for Valant and Zak will have him influence the trial and fabricate evidence. Daryan Crescend provides a fake autopsy report to cover up the fact that Thalassa survived the shooting. However, the fact remains that she was still seriously injured and in a great deal of pain and in need of medical treatment which is why Magnifi is so angry. However, he'll also see it as a way to exploit his daughter's circumstances for his own gain by blackmailing them.

    This gives Zak a better reason to stay silent and not disclose information to Phoenix because he can know that the victim isn't actually dead and only injured, and Phoenix will stay hush about it around Trucy to spare her feelings. It also means that because Magnifi is still around, he's still very much a threat to Valant and Zak to give them a reason to suspect them. Zak wants to preserve Trucy's legacy, but he also doesn't want to throw Valant under the bus to do that. He also doesn't realize that Magnifi is manipulating the circumstances of the trial where we see a young Daryan Crescend working with Klavier. The chief justice in turnabout serenade or whoever it was carried out a sham investigation and basically is setting Zak up to fall from the start.

    This impossible scenario is why Kristoph felt he had to fight fire with fire to forge evidence. It'd show he'd not only win in impossible circumstances, but he'd save a world-famous magician in the process. Then when he's kicked off, he sees how he put so much into this and vows to screw them over. Through Klavier, he catches wind of the faulty investigation and knows they'll need to cover it up, so with his forgery page, he can use either the chief justice or Phoenix as a cover to hide his own tracks and get his revenge. Phoenix will push back and argue he didn't knowingly submit a forged letter and brings up that It could very well be material to the case.

    Zak talks to Phoenix about the case and about how he needs someone to watch over Trucy should something ever happen to him. He asks if Phoenix will handle those affairs for him should it come to that. Phoenix agrees, but states he wants to save him and keep them together.

    Phoenix tries to argue that it's part of Magnifi's coverup and that he's the one who has the forgery done. After pushing back, Klavier whips out Drew to testify as to the forgery. Phoenix continues to argue Magnifi was behind it, which incurs his wrath. The trial ends as a mis-trial, Zak does his disappearing act and Phoenix's disbarment is a result of Magnifi's manipulations and the chief justice covering things up.

    This way during the case things won't make sense to Phoenix, though Klavier won't be experienced enough to catch on to realize a forgery is occurring by people he's working with on the case. It'd make more sense for the situation to be similar to DGS-1 spoilers Gina and Ryu where Ryu is forced into having her testify and admit to committing perjury which results in Ryu taking a hard punishment himself, but still giving him a chance to protect her. This time around we can do a similar deal with Phoenix and his client where he ends up being the fall guy when he wanted to protect his client.

    Through Phoenix's independent investigating, he comes to find that Lamiroir is still alive and gets in contact with her. He's kept in remote contact with Zak, who sends his support to Phoenix and Trucy whenever he can.

    At this point, we see Zak who returns the same way to talk about his wife as well as Trucy's living situation. He asks Phoenix to return care and guardianship of Trucy to his alias so he can be her father again. Phoenix says how he guesses he can't object, but he only wants what's best for Trucy and wants to get her input so she's not constantly being torn back and forth. Fighting over Trucy and using her to live out his magician career and reclaim his fortune through her vicariously makes for a more compelling (and still very shitty) reason to throw Phoenix under the bus. He plans on ruining him so that Phoenix is in no condition to care for Trucy, then he can still pass himself as a family member.

    As for Valant, he'll be placed in holding and will fear keeping in contact with Trucy and communicating. He's still tormented with guilt over the possibility that he murdered Thalassa and is terrified he'll do the same to Trucy and hurt her, so he doesn't agree to care for her.

    We jump to the present day case which gives much more reason to now suspect Klavier because we still haven't answered the question of how he just conveniently had such a perfect witness at the ready. Things can largely play out the same and we drag out Kristoph. The present day trial will also have the explicit stakes that Phoenix can potentially reclaim his badge if he's able to prove his innocence, as he makes the argument that it's connected to his trial. Splitting the trial and reversing the order eliminates the need for the MASON system as well. The case proper kind of deflates a bit because Kristoph is already in jail, and beyond saving Vera, there's not as much to it.

    My issue with the MASON system is more the fact that it indirectly shows us exactly why the jurist system is such a terrible, exploitable idea. Phoenix is the one picking exactly what information is shown to the jurors and he has complete personal control over it as far as we can tell. We already have the single most inappropriate defense team and prosecutor on the case, and the fact that he picked Lamiroir of all people as a juror (the woman connected to the past case, mother to the defense team, and the lady who just performed with the prosecutor) is all a massive conflict of interest.

    Now, Ace Attorney is a mess of conflicts of interest or everyone putting the law on hold, doing blatantly illegal or unethical things lawyers could never do. It's never been an issue because the focus of the series was primarily on interpersonal relationships and at most taking on someone's messy family politics. Even Rise from the Ashes wasn't so much concerned about changing the legal system or the larger scale issues, the focus was mostly on saving Lana from a monster who has been keeping her prisoner. Apollo Justice is one of the first games to try and shift into systemic change, but thematically almost everything about this case shows exactly how and why the jurist system can be abused and exploited.

    Ace Attorney's legal system was always a broken, messy kangaroo court because the series was never designed with a serious examination of it in mind. AJ and AAI really started the trend of focusing more on international scandals, systemic change, political revolution, and larger, more complex themes. I want to point out that none of these are inherently bad things to focus on, but they require a lot more nuance to address properly and would also need the matter of ace attorney's inherently crazy legal world to be properly contextualized too.

    You could argue Phoenix isn't an entirely good person here, but the case doesn't demonstrate any real strengths of the jurist system. Kristoph actually is the culprit here, but it doesn't show us the virtues of this system and instead how it can be abused.

    I'd go as far as to say that the MASON system largely exists because they ran into a lot of confusion as to how to handle railroading the player through the game and opted for that as a simple way to jump between beats in the story. Cases like the inherited turnabout ultimately handles the same kind of idea in a more cohesive way by jumping back and forth between the two cases as well. I feel this was a massive wasted opportunity not to do, but Kristoph will have a segment where Apollo's bracelet reacts to him, but Krisoph manages to fake his own tell and throw Apollo off.

    He saw him perceive once and is so paranoid and calculating he prepared himself for that possibility. There's a similar portion in Turnabout Goodbyes with Polly (heh.) where you see that Von Karma retrained the parrot. It's not just a silly little comedic moment but also somewhat ridiculously terrifying that Von Karma was paranoid enough to account for the possibility that it could be used against him. If not Kristoph, this would have been amazing for someone like Roger Retinz when you face off as him when he's a killer.

    The jurist system will be brought up from the beginning of this case with generic witnesses (not Lamiroir) commenting on the case every now and then.

    Having the question of Klavier in the air gives the player more room to suspect him, and Kristoph has more to work with on the stand so his segment isn't so short. He can reasonably argue that Phoenix is the forger, but he can now also try to pin the crime on his own brother. This'd help klavier engage even further as he has to prove his own innocence. Maybe Kristoph lies about his own motive for murdering Shadi by saying he caught wind about Zak's rage toward Klavier and that "an older brother would do anything to protect his little brother. Isn't that true?"

    You get plenty of material for Kristoph to push his little brother around and more out of this. When they get cornered, they still need more evidence from the past case, which is when they call in a surprise witness to better corner Kritoph—they call Lamiroir. Having Lamiroir on the stand recontextualizes the final portions of the past case and also allows them to actually have the reveal that she the mama she the mama she the mama! Then Apollo gets hit in the head with a frying pan.

    Thanks to her extra bit of testimony and proving that she has a separate identity of Thalassa (just as her husband had Shadi), you finally can take on the final portion of Kristoph where the Jury sees him for what he is. The arguments he make are legally valid, but nobody is buying his bullshit and votes to guilty him.

    Have a segment at the end where Trucy and apollo both have a million questions for Lamiroir and she thanks Phoenix for sacrificing so much for their family.

    Trucy gives her a hug, but then says she still wants to stay with Phoenix. Cue a scene where Trucy tearfully hugs Phoenix and calls him daddy and Phoenix gives a genuine tearful smile himself. Trucy forces Polly to join them and the game ends with Vera painting everyone including Lamiroir and Klavier.

    The credits have a bit where Trucy wants to do a magic show with her mother. Lamiroir wants to try doing Apollos's chords of steel herself. Gumshoe has a bit where he says he knew all along that Phoenix wasn't a bad guy.

    submitted by /u/BSWolf777
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    My friend just started building a minecraft version of The First Turnabout and I got so excited over it that I JUST HAVE TO SHARE IT WITH YOU. And yes, I got her permission to share it.

    Posted: 31 Oct 2020 01:33 AM PDT
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